Welcome to Astrology Talks, in which NYLON astrologer David Odyssey discusses the shape of things to come with cosmic visionaries and masters.
On the podcast Club Cosmos Radio, astrology obsessives Maliea Croy and Kristen Stegemoeller talk about weekly planetary transits and game-changing galactic shifts, all through the lens of fashion, music, and culture. A given episode will blast through Nicki Minaj’s 12th house, analyze Taylor Swift’s upcoming Pluto-Venus transit, and predict vivid futures to come as the planets click into new formation.
Indeed, there’s a lot to discuss. Pluto has freshly arrived in Aquarius, setting off a two-decade breakdown of digital culture, industrialization, and enlightenment assumptions. Come summer 2024, Jupiter moves into Gemini, foretelling chaotic technological leaps and severe left turns in fashion. And Saturn and Neptune, now in Pisces, enter Aries in 2025, closing out an era of self-reference and launching the zodiac anew.
Ahead, Croy and Stegememoeller dig into the epochal planetary shifts coming in 2024 and 2025 — sharing predictions of Space- and Jazz-Age revivals, revamped androgyny, and the death of social media.
Let’s start with Pluto in Aquarius. I see the end of Pluto in Capricorn as the final death of twee culture.
Maliea Croy: We’ve talked about this a lot, with Pluto in Aquarius killing any indicators of what’s cool and signifiers in general. Capricorn and Cancer have such a maturity and immaturity fetish. It’s baby and daddy all the time. That’s very Neptune and Saturn in Pisces, the killing of whimsy.
Kristen Stegemoeller: And with the rapid trend cycle we’ve been going through, where trends lose their coherence. Aquarius is so much about authenticity and being iconoclastic. When Neptune was in Aquarius, we had the hipster era, which was all about: “How authentic can you be? How niche can you be? What is the rarest, most unique expression you can make that still signals that you’re a part of a popular moment, but still you?” The way things are now with Neptune in Pisces, where everything feels pretty conformist — everybody has to be Barbiecore now, everybody has to [be] cottagecore now, and everything can be purchased in a fast-fashion mode. Pluto in Aquarius is so against the grain. Maybe we’ll get subcultures again! That’s what we’re hoping for.
When we’re looking at Saturn’s transition from Pisces to Aries in the mid-’90s, we see the death of grunge in the consumerist cycle. At that point, new things emerge: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Destiny’s Child, and new archetypes.
MC: With every Saturn in Pisces era we’ve seen, you’re starting to collect all the things that will be launched in Saturn in Aries. This is a memorial period. Even the Met Gala, with its glass coffins and delicate dresses… it’s all very funerary. And Saturn in Aries is like Spice Girls coming after grunge.
When I watch RuPaul’s Drag Race, there’s an aspect of referencing all of the culture of the last century. But at this point, it’s referencing RuPaul’s Drag Race. It’s not just a Mae West impression you’re watching, but an impression of a previous queen doing Mae West. After the funerary review is over, what comes next?
KS: That’s such a great point. The Kardashians do that all the time with this infinite regress of self-reference: They wear old outfits; they cosplay as each other through different eras. It could only happen in Neptune in Pisces, when celebrities became gods. The Neptune in Pisces era is the Instagram era, of being completely seduced by images. Celebrities got so glossy and fan armies were born. Celebrity culture became completely immersive. We’re trying to follow it and get crumbs of glamour from the ultra-wealthy and ultra-glossy celebrities.
But this influx of Aquarian and Aries energy around the corner is so against that. Something new needs to be born. Whatever’s going to be happening technologically with all these other signs, like Uranus and Jupiter going into Gemini, is going to create a complete break in the way that we interact with each other and use technology. It’s no longer going to be a fetishization of the glamour of yesteryear, but something completely different, like a fetishization of the future. It’s kind of a Space-Age idea, like in the ‘50s and ‘60s. What if we all watched The Jetsons and started wearing chrome and launched into space?
MC: The Pluto in Capricorn era had us so in relation to authority and security. It’s not about innovation; it’s about security. But Pluto in Aquarius is about the people, and not the person at the top, which changes everyone’s attitude about how much they can do and how much empowerment they have. Neptune and Saturn going into Pisces is exciting and radical and has a dangerous edge to it, too. We’re already seeing Neptune in Aries percolating where it’s much more masc, much more buff. People are strong. Pisces is so preserved. Aries and Gemini are much more improvised.
I’m curious about what the definitive art of this era will be.
KS: With the [Spring 2024] Margiela show, there was a feeling of witnessing history. Not to be so dramatic about a couture show, but it felt like we were witnessing a work of high beauty that doesn’t feel possible in the fashion and trend landscape we exist in. It was a show that was two years in the works. We talk about Saturn in Pisces’ sobering-up quality because it’s a time to put that dreamy Neptune in Pisces quality into works that will last and embody this era.
And what about style?
MC: 2024 has a lot of chaos with this mutability: Jupiter in Gemini is so excitable and has so many ideas. We had a Jupiter in Gemini era in the mid-‘60s — pop art and mod — and the early ‘50s of Populux and pastel appliances. It’s got a kind of goofy cartoonish Space-Age style. This is the most extreme and funny example to me: Kristen always mentions Helena Bonham Carter, which is such Gemini style. The hats! The whimsy! But Susie [Essman] from Curb Your Enthusiasm is a Gemini, and she styles herself — every hat and every necklace. And it’s hilarious; it’s drunk style.
KS: The last time Jupiter was in Gemini was in 2012 to 2013. We cannot avoid the return of a statement necklace. Digital prints were so popular. Technology was enabling new ways to print on garments, and they had that kind of chaotic, kaleidoscopic photo print quality. This will be interesting to see with all the evolutions we’ve made with gender presentations in the last 12 years. I associate Jupiter in Gemini with a turn towards androgyny. The last time around was the Jenna Lyons “woman in a suit” style, and I think we’ve broken those codes apart. MC: Jupiter in Gemini was also late ‘70s and early ‘80s: masc, studded, safety pins punk. Then Cindy Lauper and Boy George and Lisa Bonet. It’s like: androgyny through decorating yourself.
MC: 2012 was also so studded, too.
KS: The studded [Jeffrey Campbell] Litas had the world in a chokehold. It’s already happening: Jupiter in Taurus is so classic luxury and western wear, and signaling wealth through high-quality luxury items like cashmere and fetishization of Loro Piana. There was a Business Insider headline: “The next iteration of quiet luxury? The jazz era.” The Jazz Generation and the Harlem Renaissance feels so Gemini. That generation was born with Neptune and Pluto in Gemini: The fast-moving Bright Young Things that are moving into urban areas, sleek and androgynous. The last time Jupiter was in Gemini, in 2012, The Great Gatsby came out —
KS: — and that became part of that trend: the deco chaos, the string of pearls debauchery. It feels so at odds with the futuristic utopia to be all about champagne and fringe, but you know, they run alongside each other. Laufey is so popular now, and she sings old jazz standards. The kids love her.
MC: It’s that attitude of dressing on the go and on the fly. I just generally think that Pluto in Aquarius is going to take down social media. Saturn in Pisces feels like the end of superstylists, these really archival looks, everything is a lewk. There’s going to be some power in how good are you at spontaneous style.
When Saturn leaves Pisces, a lot of those styles are going to change, including the baggy look. Saturn in Aries gave us Madonna’s Ray of Light. Jupiter in Gemini was Saturday Night Fever and Fight Club and these visceral, sexual debuts. What do you see happening as we leave Pisces behind?
MC: I only caught a little bit of the  Grammys, and of course, it was so girl pop star all over the place. These Aquarius and Gemini influences feel like bands, groups, like bringing back multiple perspectives rather than the one deity. In terms of the baggy style, I do feel like a cigarette pant is going to be back in a way that, again. Things will be more efficient and speedy. It’s not so dissociated. Saturn in Pisces is already working on that, getting us out of our total escapism, sobering us up, but Aries really wants us in our bodies. That kind of buff woman archetype, like Ray of Light with Madonna debuting her arms.
KS: The kick-*ss woman. When Ray of Light came out, Madonna was like, “Hey, by the way, yoga.” Pisces is so incorporeal, it wants to be a vapor, a mist: “Do not perceive me.” Aries feels so much about showing off the gains. It’s bodycon, tight clothes that show off your muscles. Aries can be kind of ruthless like that. It’s competitive. Only the strong survive.
MC: Aquarius and Aries are incredibly forward-looking. They’re so geared towards the future, they’re not interested in the past at all. It feels much more related to “OK, what is next?” Whatever is next is too overwhelming in Pisces, so we just have to disconnect. I hope that we have some kind of empowerment that makes it feel like we can think about the future and deal with it.
These periods are so much about one mode of technology dying so another can come in. During Jupiter’s Taurus transit in the ‘20s, we saw the end of the silent movie era, and Jupiter in Gemini brought in talkies and musicals, which was this kind of violent transition that had to happen. With so much in Aquarius and Gemini, what do you see around these new technological epochs?
MC: I have a feeling about capital “P” Photography returning with Pluto in Aquarius killing social media. I also feel like candid photography in general is going to be much more of an attitude that’s sharpened. Everything that is supposedly candid now is not: It’s a PR stunt or a TikTok. Aries and Gemini really know how to play with offending you, and they’re really funny in that way. They can master the art of roasting and pushing the edge. I think this sort of candid “Can you take it? Can you get in the mix with it?” is going to be much more of a thing.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.